The Portable Freeware Collection Forums

I really don't like using Paypal for a long list of reasons, but at least it's simple.

1. Tried to give US$20. Only takes Euros (which turns out to be US$28). Okay whatever ... then they would only let me give 15? Huh?

2. Decided to give the remaining 5 to another project that's on the service. Wouldn't let me saying the minimum is 2 Euros. WTF?

So I contacted Flattr support. Here's the exchange:

I wrote:Just signed up.

Three problems:

1. Tried to give 20 Euros to a project I love. Would only let me give 15. Have no clue why.

2. Tried to give the remaining 5 to another project I love. Wouldn't let me saying the minimum is 2 Euros. I'm very confused.

Could you please help me get this cleared up?

flattr support wrote:Hi

Sorry for the slow reply, we are in the middle of a release of new features here.

The reason why you can't donate the "last" 5 euros is that your monthly budget (in your case 5 euros) can not be donated as it's supposed to be used to flattr with. If you want you can lower your monthly budget (minimum is 2) and donate the rest.

The donation function should be seen as an extra thing that you can do besides flattring, as flattring is the main function of flattr.

Hope that explains it!

Regards [name deleted]

I wrote:1. Why did you ignore my first issue?

2. What happens to the remaining 2 Euros?

Please make these other exciting extras like subscription and minimum/maximum sizes *optional*. When someone is asking for donated money, the last thing you want to do is make it complicated and confusing for people to use.

flattr support wrote:Because the first issue is the same as the last. The 5 euros you could not donate was allocated for flattring.

The 2 euros remaining will be used for flattring.

It is optional, but you have flattred, Greenshot - a free and open source screenshot tool and The Document Foundation. When you flattr you also need to have money for it. That is why you can not donate that money.

As I said, the donation feature should be seen as the optional/extra feature. If people just want to receive one time donations is paypal or equivalent a better option. Flattr is all about making it easy to give small amounts to a lot of creators. That is where Flattr shines.

Unfortunately the rationale for this is lost upon me, probably because I don't think it's the sort of thing that should require deciphering.

Well, as I see the conversation:

They created a new tool.
You use the tool in a way that's different from what they meant. It doesn't work great.
You complain because you know that they could alter the tool to work well both in your workflow and in theirs at the same time.
They fail to notice it and concentrate on the fact that you use it not the way they meant.

I don't view it as something special.
They are fixed on their ideas that are new and are the feature that sets them apart from their competition.
They are either too concentrated on it and fail to even notice that their tool could work better or they notice it perfectly well, but want you to start using their tool they way they prefer, because it distances you from their competitors and locks you in.
Well, it happens. You can escalate it, you can give up and use the tool the way it's meant to be used, you can give up and go away. The choice is yours.

m^(2) wrote:I don't view it as something special.
They are fixed on their ideas that are new and are the feature that sets them apart from their competition.
They are either too concentrated on it and fail to even notice that their tool could work better or they notice it perfectly well, but want you to start using their tool they way they prefer, because it distances you from their competitors and locks you in.
Well, it happens. You can escalate it, you can give up and use the tool the way it's meant to be used, you can give up and go away. The choice is yours.

Reminds me so much of both Chrome and the iPhone.

m^(2) wrote:I don't view it as something special.
They are fixed on their ideas that are new and are the feature that sets them apart from their competition.
They are either too concentrated on it and fail to even notice that their tool could work better or they notice it perfectly well, but want you to start using their tool they way they prefer, because it distances you from their competitors and locks you in.
Well, it happens. You can escalate it, you can give up and use the tool the way it's meant to be used, you can give up and go away. The choice is yours.

Yeah, you pretty much nailed it.

carbonize wrote:Reminds me so much of both Chrome and the iPhone.

Not a Chrome user, but certainly agree with the iPhone comment.

Old thread update:

I wrote this up before the Patreon service exploded. I think I've nailed down why people go either the Patreon or Flattr route: with PayPal it feels like a transaction where you pay somebody for something they've done or something you want. The Patreon/Flattr systems are less like a transaction and more like support (though Patreon is triggered by an "artist" creating a work of art). Psychologically that's important because people want to get away from the idea that charity is like buying a loaf of bread and perhaps more like caring. 

Aftertought: whatever happened to "the customer is always right"?